Talk of the Triangle

Adam: Welcome to the top of the triangle.

This is the place where we are
going to be discovering the people,

places and events that are worth
talking about you're in the triangle.

I'm your host, Adam cave.

Hey guys, I'm Alyssa.

Wista Hough and we are here
today with our producer, Joe.

Hello?

We're really excited that
our first podcast we are here

with Lee, Catherine Bonner, a.

And she is a beekeeper.

So it's very timely because I was just
complaining to my co-host and to Joe

that I have a pollen throat today.

So now we're going to talk
about pollinators that's right.

And for those of you who read our host
magazines, Midtown and carry living,

we recently ran an article all about
the beekeeping and Lee, Katherine.

You were a big part of that article.

We were really excited to see it.

Come out.

Thank you.

Let's ask you first to explain
what you do and what be downtown

is and how you got started with it.

I'm the founder and CEO of a
business or business as we like

to call it called, be downtown.

And what we do is we install and maintain
beehives on corporate campuses to help

rebuild sustainable agriculture while
simultaneously providing year-round

employee engagement and leader
development programming to our partners.

So we keep about 500 hives
across the east coast.

New York city is our newest market.

We haven't formally announced it yet,
but I guess maybe I am on your podcast.

So breaking news and we are
in Raleigh Durham Charlotte,

Richmond, Virginia, Washington, DC.

Atlanta Georgia and
Tampa, Florida as well.

You're taking over the east coast here.

I like to call it the
Southern smile minus New York.

That ones are a little outlier,
but the Southern smile is a, is

where we like to work within.

We keep the bees for Microsoft cricket,
wireless Invesco, the New York stock

exchange, Georgia power, MetLife, Cisco.

Within terrorists and carry
sass and Gary as well.

And we get to help cultivate great places
to work through environmental stewardship.

So how did you come up with this idea or
this to be a business and not just a hobby

or something to do on your family farm?

It was never meant to be a business.

I couldn't have a beehive while I was
in college at my apartment complex.

I asked him why I was like why not?

Like now I get it.

But at the time I was like,
come on, I'm on the third story.

No one will know it'd be great.

So I asked the owners, do they
have a pet policy or exactly?

What is your pet policy on bees please?

So I asked the con the owners
of American tobacco campus.

I was interning there and I asked if I
could put a beehive on their rooftop and.

Michael Goodman immediately
said yes, no hesitation.

He was like, absolutely.

This campus was built on
agriculture, bring on the bees.

And that's where Burt's bees is located.

It is Burt's bees, world
headquarters location.

Yes.

So he said, how about you go to the end
of the building and let's get a meeting

set up with you at the company down there.

Oh, nice.

Birds took the meeting.

We have a six foot tall clear beehive.

That's at the front of bird store
at Burt's bees, world headquarters.

DOR can open people can see
it, see the bees up close.

It's awesome.

And is that something you set up?

It is.

Wow.

I'm going to have to go look at that.

It's soon.

It's usually stayed after this Adam.

And we it just media picked up on it
because Burt's got bees and sass reached

out capital broadcasting company, Rochelle
RTP foundation reached out and they

were like, we want to get some bees.

And it came time for me to graduate.

I asked my parents, if they would
be willing to fund rent and ramen

for a year for me to try this out
as a company, I just, I knew I

would always wonder what happened.

What could have happened
if I didn't do it?

So we did a shark tank, family
episode where I dressed up.

I pitched in our family living
room and they deliberated yeah.

Came back.

They were like, she has to, you
have to take it seriously if we're

going to do this and you're going
to turn down the dream job offer.

But in the end, what are your plans?

I was it was a dream job.

I had worked really hard at American
tobacco and American underground

for years while I was in school.

They didn't have a job opening
at the time I was graduating.

So they asked me what I wanted to
do, and they were going to build

a job for me based off of what
was going to bring me joy that.

Yes.

I I was very fortunate to have
Jessica Abraham and Michael Goodman

on my team growing up as my mentors.

And I remember Michael would invite me
to these big meetings as college, junior.

And I finally said, Michael, why
are you inviting me to these?

And he said, you're smart.

You have good ideas.

Why would I not want you in the room?

And that, that just immediately.

A huge win from a family that's
so well-respected in the area for

him to believe in me like he did.

And then I, when I turned the job,
I asked him, can I do both and work

part-time for you and try be downtown?

And he said, no.

Because he be, if you don't go after one.

Be great at either.

And so I came back like a
week later, I said, I think

I'm going to try be downtown.

And he smiled.

And he said, I was hoping that
was what you're going to do.

Oh, I love that.

What a great supporter.

That's fantastic.

Yeah.

That's the sign of a true role
model and mentor is somebody that.

Doesn't want to keep you under their wing.

They want you to fly on your own.

So that's awesome.

It was quite a gift to have that
experience so early on and a family

that was so willing to help me succeed.

And we expanded to Atlanta a couple
years later, and that was the break.

Like the tipping point for be
downtown of did it work because

I'm from here, I'm homegrown, NC
state graduate, trying to save the

world that people want to support.

But when I go to a city where
no one knows me, how will.

Work, how will it translate?

Yeah.

And we were very fortunate that it
took off in Georgia and many of the

CEO of Chick-fil-A is beekeeper.

The CEO of Invesco.

His wife is a beekeeper, the CEO of
Georgia power, his best friend's largest

honey distributor in the United States.

Everyone was a beekeeper in Georgia.

Somehow some way are connected to one
and they were all like, let's do it.

Let's get the beat.

Luminato run for their money.

The beavers are everywhere.

You just don't know it until you
ask now are any of the other

members of your family involved?

My grandpa and my uncle are always
my big cheerleaders and mentors.

And if I have a question or need
something, they're always there.

My mom will come and help jar honey.

And she always decorates the
new offices and helps move.

And my dad is, I say I got
the best of both worlds.

I got the farming side of my mom's face.

But I got the entrepreneurial
side of my dad's he ended up

going back to school while I was
starting be downtown to get his MBA.

Cause he's so excited about
what I was doing and building.

And he concentrated in
entrepreneurship as well.

He's always had an entrepreneurial mind
and I didn't know how to balance books

or write checks or create budgets.

And my dad did it all to help me and he
taught me and he helped me create goals.

And so my dad, while everybody talks.

Very much about my mom's beekeeping side,
because that's the piece of the story.

There's this other side of the story that
if it was just beekeeping, this would

have never worked, but learning how to
run and grow and build a business is from

my dad and my dad's side of the family.

That was very entrepreneurial.

That's fantastic.

Being able to pull all that together
into one passion is really special.

Can you tell us a little bit about how
you even get started with a company?

How do you go from.

No BS to having bees on top of your
building and do the employees take care of

the BS or do you go take care of the bees?

How does this whole process work?

That's a great question.

It's a question people often ask,
cause they're like, how did the

crazy beat girl get BS at Delta?

I'm like, how did you do it?

And a lot of companies come to us, the big
fortune five hundreds, they hear about us.

We keep bees for many of the
largest corporations in the world

right now, and they love us.

We don't have churn because the bees
become part of the culture of the company.

People love their bees.

And so company, other companies
in large corporations hear about

it and they reach out to us.

We have learned that cold call doesn't
work very well for us because it's a cold.

Hey, you interested in B and
they're like, no, we just tried

to get some off our campus.

What's going on?

Why are you calling me about bees?

So we gotta just wait and we our approach
is we let our reputation speak for

itself and our partners are all over.

So excited to share about their bees,
that it's just a natural thing for us.

So when a company signs on we scheduled
big grand opening celebration and

there's a pollinator friendly seeds.

You can plant it and there's
honey, you can taste and costumes

and it's just a big carnival.

Of joy to bring these bees onto the
campus to create a buzz as one might say.

And then that we bring in the
bees, they're all hand painted

by an artist who we have.

Full-time on our team.

They're designed and
branded for the companies.

It's great marketing.

Everything we do has a purpose.

The beehives being designed and painted
it also helps the bees know which box is

theirs when they get home from flying.

Cause they can see the colors and the
shapes and say, oh, mine's the pink flower

one or mine's the hexagon orange one.

And it makes them go to the red.

Really tell the colors and
the, wow, they're quite smart.

Okay.

So it has a purpose, but there's
another marketing is a great opportunity

to say we bring in the hives.

It's usually there two or
three hives that we bring in.

We have some of the best beekeepers
in the United States on our team.

And it's something I'm really proud of.

You can't just train for 10 days and then
be a beekeeper, especially on a corporate

campus because this is live agriculture.

Things can go wrong.

You can have your bees die and
companies like, Hey, what's going on?

Why are we not getting honey?

Why are bees dying?

This was so not the purpose of doing
this is having bees die on the campus.

So we we take our jobs very seriously.

We come out every two weeks spring
through fall and work the hives.

And then in the winter, we're out
about once a month, but throughout

the year, we're running employee
engagement programming to help

create a great place to work.

And this Longer conversation of
like a dialogue around the bees.

How does your company look like the bees?

How does your company act like the bees?

Honeybees are an example of
mother nature's best high

performing collective team.

We can learn a lot about our
corporate entities and our corporate

structures and how we build teams.

I actually looking at the
honey bees as the example.

So we teach a lot about that at corporate.

So one of the thoughts I'm having
listening to you is that I'm surprised

feeling like I'm a relatively
informed person that I'm not hearing

these corporations telling the world
about their stewardship of bees.

Is that starting to grow,
are we seeing more companies

wanting to see it as a PR wind?

It's definitely a good PR tool to use.

It is.

And they do use it.

But we, our deal is three-year contracts.

So we don't want to put
the bees any anywhere ever.

And have it be simply just for.

Warm glow for marketing for press, and
then have them be like, cool, thanks.

Now.

Get rid of the ways buzz off.

Exactly.

We, that is like the exact
opposite of why we do what we do.

While yes, we like, we get a ton
of press throughout the year.

It's incoming.

We don't have a PR team,
but we've been featured.

Around the world for what we do.

And it's great that we get to share
different partners in the process of that

storytelling, but they just want their
people to see the bees and love the bees.

And it's this very like beautiful story
that the company gets to have together.

And when COVID hit, we were non-essential
besides the agricultural piece,

but we were like a non-essential
employee onsite employee engagement.

Company on corporate campuses and every
corporate campus and the world shut down.

And I remember when I sent
the invoice to Delta, I cried

cause I was like, this is it.

This.

It's going to topple
down from here on out.

We're going to lose everything and we
didn't lose a single partner during COVID.

Oh, wow.

It was what brought people joy at MetLife.

They had, when the campus shut down, they
had their town hall and their site lead.

We got.

Text from his assistant.

She was like, we're at the town hall.

And every is asking about the bees.

Can we get the update?

Cause they had made it so that we
could get on the campus, even though

the campus was shut down and they
weren't expecting all of the first

questions to be around, but how are
the bees like, do they get COVID?

Could they be harmed?

What's going on?

Who's taking care.

And so we, we grew because what we did
is we recreated all of our programming

so that we had virtual programs and,
cultivating unexpected joy is one

of our core values at B downtown.

And while we used to do it only in person,
now we can do it all over the world

through virtual experiences as well.

And so we ended up growing because.

We had all these partners who were
trying to find ways to bring their

team joy at a time when everyone was
upset and stressed and didn't know

what was happening in the world.

But all of a sudden, there's this
little box of honey that shows

up that gives you how to pair it
with different cheeses and wines.

And so we had all of our partners
saying, how can we do more with you?

Because you are creating joy we
are in our best year ever at be

downtown, we've already hit all of
our annual milestone goals and morale.

Less than halfway through the year.

We love what we do and every
day I definitely see that.

Yeah.

And hearing you talk about it.

Adam: Lee, Catherine you say in
the article that honeybees are

the pandas of the insect world.

Can you please explain how honey
bees are tied in with pandas?

Absolutely.

The reason why we say that is
because honeybees are like this

gateway insect, it's an insect.

People feel like they can love that
they can want to learn more about.

And just like the pandas,
everybody loves the pan is they

want to protect the pandas.

There's a lot of other animals that
need protecting, but they don't

necessarily always get the spotlight.

The pandas typically do the honeybees
are the same way they're in the

front of all of the news articles.

Honeybees are this beautiful way to
start a conversation around a much

bigger topic around pollinator decline,
environmental stewardship and health of

our overall communities that we live.

Gotcha.

So it's not about the cute factor.

That's what you're saying.

Let's say they are fuzzy
and they do make honey.

So that helps them out a lot.

Yeah.

Once people.

Fall in love with the honeybee.

What's the next B what's the
progress part of this slippery slope.

You all of a sudden are just into it.

And people really do love the honey bees
and that kind of always stays top of mind

for people, but there's so many native
pollinators that are really important for

us to have and to take care of as well.

Honeybees are a managed
agricultural population, so we don't

necessarily need to save the honey.

They're going to be fine.

They're never going to be on an
endangered species list, but other

native pollinators that don't get the
spotlight as much like Mason bees and

leafcutter bees they're super, super
important to, and for us at be downtown.

Our whole hope is that when we bring
these beehives on the corporate

campuses and employees get to learn
about environmental stewardship and

the bees, that what they're actually.

Doing is there learning lessons that
they can take home to help and support

their own communities and environments
for all of the pollinators as a whole.

So you're saying that honeybees are not
really in danger of one day becoming

endangered, but why would other be.

I have that problem.

That's a great question.

A lot of other, the native bees
that live in this area or that

live around the world is they're
semi solitary or they're solitary.

So while a honeybee is a super social
structure, there's 60,000 bees peak

season in a healthy beehive a year
leafcutter bees, your Mason bees, your

bumblebees they're semi or solitary bees.

So they either have very small
colonies or they live alone.

And so we can't study them.

We can't do as much research
on their overall health.

We don't know exactly what is going on
with their numbers as much as honeybees.

But the fact that honeybees are
also struggling with beekeepers

taking care of them and trying
to keep them healthy and strong.

It means our native pollinators are
struggling even more in the process.

So when people ask, what can I do?

How can I support?

How can I help?

Plant your yards, make Meadows not
lawns, go outside and look at your yard

and say, is my yard on life support?

Or is it supporting life?

And if it's on life support and it's
one inch of green grass and there's

no color and there's no flowers,
then there's work to be done.

That's very interesting that you're
talking about lawns and Meadows

because I heard last week it was
actually ginger Z, the meteorologist

on ABC, she was talking about lawns
and how they they're really no good.

Can you expand on that?

We're so used to seeing
the nice tidy green lawns.

Do you ever see a time that we can
try to transition into having more

flowers and more Meadows I think the
conversation has begun around that

of, I never really understood where
one inch of green grass came from.

And then somebody shared with
me probably golf courses.

It's a sign of wealth.

It's a sign of prosperity to
be able to be at a golf course

and a member of a country club.

And so that one inch of green
grass is what people want.

Nowhere in nature.

Do we find a naturally occurring Monaco?

So for us to be literally fighting
nature at all times to have one type

of grass put in our lawns or the way we
farm today is all monoculture farming.

It's fighting mother nature at every step.

I think one potential.

Silver lining of COVID was people
couldn't leave their homes.

So they went outside sometimes for
the first time, in a long time to

enjoy their land and their properties.

And they realized, Hey, there's
nothing happening out here.

I need to plant stuff
like what can I plant?

And people and nurseries are getting so
much better about having native plants

and native pollinators have mutual.

So there are a lot of plants
that can only survive.

If the native pollinator is present, there
are a lot of pollinators that can only

survive if the native plant is present.

And so educating ourselves on how we
create life in our yards, where we're

not clear, cutting everything, we're
leaving some natural brushy areas.

People always, I think that
when it looks wild, it looks

uncapped and the homeowner's
association is going to get angry.

You can still have a pollinator friendly
yard and you can still have grass.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

My teacher at NC state who was my
introduction to bees and beekeeping

teacher, the reason why I.

Deeply fell in love with the way
he taught was, is a very serious

issue around pollinator decline.

They are an indicator species.

They're struggling around the world.

They're trying to tell us
something's off balance in our

ecology and in our environment.

And as humans, we're not slowing down
fast enough to really listen to them,

but they're trying to tell us something.

So if if we can just become better
environmental stewards where we

each do a tiny little bit, it's not
that one person, one neighborhood,

one company has to change.

Is that if everybody plants a little
bit more pollinator plants, if everybody

stopped spraying as many chemicals and
the collective ripple effect is massive.

And that's what changes the world, not
just one person, it's everyone doing

just a little bit to make a difference.

When did you know that you
wanted to be a beekeeper?

, I grew up in Raleigh, so I had all of
the opportunities and amenities that

growing up in a city has to offer.

My mom's side of the family.

And the farm has been in our
family for generations is in

Farmville, North Carolina.

Where else would you have
a farm, but informal.

And everyone thinks that I just grew up
always with the bees, but they really

were on a hiatus for most of my life.

It was a tobacco farm and then
it moved to a cattle farm.

And then as we started to reduce
the size of the herd the bees came

back and all of a sudden there was.

Magical thing that my grandfather and
my uncle were fantastic at, that knew,

they knew so much about the bees.

And it was the secret that I never knew
that they had the skillset for, but

farmers are brilliant human beings.

They know so much about so many
different areas, not just in farming,

but in mechanics and entrepreneurship
and soil science, meteorology, because

they have to be able to do it right.

To be a good farmer.

And so the bees really came back
right when I was finishing up high

school and these little boxes showed
up and I was like, what is this?

This is so cool.

And my uncle took me out and.

After I got to go and I was done for us.

This is, I love this.

I, you were never intimidated.

No, so many people are nervous
around bees, oftentimes because

it's a lack of education and they've
never gotten to see the bees.

They're this like foreign thing where the
only time people really interact or notice

them as if they got stung by a pollinator.

One of the things we do, the companies
we work with, we get to put them in

suits and their employees in suits and
they get to work the hives with us.

And so many times you have someone
that's so nervous and they're like,

ah, I don't really want to do this, but
I'm doing it because I'm going to be.

By the end of the tour,
they are like, move over.

Let me get another frame.

Like I want to get more
bees, take my picture.

This is going to be great
for Instagram, the suit.

It's like a shield, so you
don't have to worry as much.

That's your protection.

It helps you just get a little bit
of trust so that you can get started.

And it is a life-changing
moment for people.

We actually just put beehives out at
Woodland terrace, literally like minutes

from ACA walk there from here at the
retirement assisted living community and

the amount of joy that the bees have.

To that community already is
really just one of the most

exciting things for me to see.

It's, re-engaging people in agriculture,
in a in a demographic where most of them

grew up with agriculture in their lives.

And it's gone now, instead of bringing
a little bit back, has brought that

community a lot of joy and to get them
back in and to nature and out outdoors.

Yes, that's really special.

That's a great idea for retirement homes.

It seems to me like, as we discuss this.

Three clear kind of environments in
which you're working to CBS active,

obviously urban cause you're an
urban beekeeper, but I live in a very

suburban Kerry neighborhood where the
green grass that you're discussing is

prevalent except in my yard where there
isn't any and that's not by whatever

you say anyway, just a bad homeowner.

But then there's the country,
obviously, where this was a tradition

that goes, it goes way back.

So I'm wondering if you see this there
being more of a need in any of these

particular environments or is there
just a much of an issue there as there

are in urban or suburban environment?

That's a great question.

We used to have family farms, historically
everybody had a couple hundred acres,

smaller family farms with buffer zones.

There was crop rotation, like
I said, nowhere in nature.

Is there a naturally
occurring monoculture?

So crop rotations really healthy for the.

But we've moved to large scale
agriculture where it's tens of thousands

of acres of the same crop blooming.

And then when that crop is
done, blooming, there's no food.

It's what we would consider a flake,
a food desert in a city for humans.

It's the same for bees to many of them.

Actually, most of the bees in the
United States, they're used for

agricultural pollination and they're
moved on the back of 18 Wheeler trucks

throughout the year to meet the needs
of farmers who need their crops.

Pollen.

That's really unhealthy for the bees.

They're stressed out.

They're on the back of trucks.

They get sprayed with a lot of chemicals.

They they're only getting one
food source and just like humans.

They need diversity and diet.

So there's a lot about agriculture that we
need to really look at and understand is

this truly sustainable for the long haul?

We produce enough food for everyone in the
world to eat 4,100 kilo calories a day.

The problem is not food production.

It's how do you move and transport
and store food the right way.

So we have the ability to grow a
lot more food as well with crop

rotation, but in cities, honeybees
have the ability to thrive.

They are in stable living conditions.

There's diversity of food because
people plant all different plants.

There's longer blooming periods for
the bees as well because people are

planting colorful things year round.

So the bees have a lot of
positives in urban environments.

Whereas it's a little, it can be harder
for them if they're used for agricultural

pollination, but that's a super important
part of agriculture is the bees.

We need to have them there to
pollinate the food because of

the way we've changed farming.

. If you can't change the corporate
farming culture overnight, which seems

like that would be a tough challenge
are the bees that are being raised in

an urban and suburban environments.

Are these useful to the farming community?

Is that where they're being trucked from?

I don't quite understand.

This is a new idea to me that there's
trucks rolling around full of bees.

Fascinating right there.

Yeah.

I've never heard that you don't and you
may not have, you've probably driven

past in don't even notice because they're
just these white boxes that are tinted.

I'm going to look out for it.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

The bees are like what a beekeeper, a
commercial beekeepers, what it's called

that does the large agricultural.

Contracts would they'll move their
bees to Florida in the winter

to keep the bees warm and try to
keep them healthy kind of reset.

So they don't go back and really
to urban environments, Georgia will

have a lot of commercial beekeepers
over winter there, as well as

other places in the United States.

The urban beat.

They're not moving.

Ours are not at least.

And our, so the average loss rate
for honeybees in the United States

is about 30 to 40% every year.

For winter loss rate.

The worst year we ever had
at be downtown was 18%.

It's less than half of the
national average, but it's because

we're really good beekeepers.

And there's also an issue in urban
environments where a lot of people don't

fully understand that to be a beekeeper.

You have to be a farmer
and it's really hard work.

It is a journey it's not just put
bees in your backyard and get.

And you can do a lot of harm to the
overall health of the bee population

by just putting bees in your backyard
bee and not taking care of them

because they're going to get sick.

They're going to get filled with disease.

They're going to get other
bees in the area sick.

So our job at be downtown
is really serious.

We're putting a lot of bees
in urban environments and

our bees need to be healthy.

They need to be strong.

They need to have great genetics
because they're interacting with all

the other pollinators in the area.

We typically don't encourage
people to become a beekeeper unless

they really understand the value
and the importance of farming.

Our role at be downtown is to bring
agriculture and sustainable agriculture

back into cities and to start the
conversation of what that means to be an

environmental steward and to help as well
as rebuild a respect for agriculture and

our farmers for where our food comes from.

So let's talk, honey.

Shall we?

And there's so many things to talk about
with honey, because like I said, I've

got the pollen throat and I keep hearing
about honey and the benefits of of honey.

But I also hear that you should only
eat local honey to help with allergies

and colds and I guess overall health.

But can you tell us why local honey and
how do we go about picking out honey?

When we go to the farmers?

It's a great question.

There's a back and forth on if honey
really helps with ally there's Paul and

in hunting, but most of it is pollen.

That is not going to give you
like pine pollen and grass.

Pollen is what gives you allergies.

And the bees aren't necessarily
going to that for honey production

because there's not nectar and pine
trees, but you're putting a superfood

in your body every single day.

Most people don't put a superfood
in their body every day.

But during pollen season, if
they're taking honey, there are

little bits of pollen in the honey.

And I personally believe that it works.

It's not a lot of studies that
like definitively say that it does.

But the logic, a little, like a
vaccine, a little bit of the stuff

that's going to make you bad,
it's going to help your body yeah.

It's going to get you and that's why
they say local is because if you're

getting something from Alaska and
it's a completely different floral

source and florals that you're pulling
pollen from, then it's not going

to do, but it's a super food at the
end of the day, no matter where you

get it from, as long as it's real.

There is this whole kind of dark
world of the honey industry because

the honey industry didn't do what
the maple syrup industry did.

You cannot call something maple syrup,
unless it is tapped from a maple tree.

Otherwise it's syrup, honey.

Didn't do that.

About 70% of the honey you're going
to find in the grocery store is

either high-fructose corn syrup.

It's a mixture of honey and
high-fructose corn syrup to extend

the amount of honey you can produce.

It's illegally imported from China,
which it's not allowed to be imported

to the United States from China.

And so it's able to drive a lot
of prices down, any honey that you

see in the U S that says organic.

Don't buy it.

It's going to be $2 more and it's, you
don't know where the bees are going,

so you can't call it organic honey.

And how can we tell where do we buy it?

And how can we tell what
the good stuff really is?

I'll say the state farmer's market there's
a beekeeper there, his name's Barry

Hines and he owns be blessed, honey.

And I see inside the building
or is he's in the outside area.

Great honey.

Very good fan.

He's a fourth generation
beekeeper as well.

He works with at-risk youth and helps
train them to become beekeepers.

He's amazing.

So I always tell people, if you go
to the farmer's market, go to Berry

but this is farm in Raleigh or.

Kenita haven't even heard of it.

He moves his hives.

Will you read it?

It's Conetoe and that's my problem.

Skinny as one of the weird North Carolina
ones that you're like what in the world.

But also if you go to the grocery
store, I always say like your end cap

and at Harris Teeter it's well, at
mine, it's like by the little elevator,

but in cap that has all the locals.

I always tell people, find the ugliest
worst designed label you can possibly find

with a clip art, be in cowboy boots that
has like our earth link, email address.

That's it nag it as fast as you
can, because it's a beekeeper.

You don't want the plastic, honey bear.

You want that old school
Mason jar like bad label.

Cause it's beekeeper that doesn't.

The time or the money finances define it.

They're just trying to keep
bees and sell some honey.

And it is so hard to make money as
a honey producer today because one

pound of honey is 55,000 collective
flight miles flown by the bees.

That's over two
circumferences of the earth.

The amount of work it takes to
produce honey is unbelievable.

And.

Beekeepers barely make their money back.

It was when I started be downtown, my
uncle's big thing was, do not build

this business where honey profits matter
because you will not be sustainable.

So all of the honey that is
produced on our corporate campus.

It goes back to the partners.

It takes us a really long time to
extract all of the honey in that way,

rather than big batch extractions.

But it's just part of what they pay for
every year in their partnerships with us.

It's.

That's how we make money.

So that brings up another
question that I was thinking

about in the harvesting of honey.

I was reading something this morning as
we were prepping a little bit for this.

It suggested that the lack of
harvesting is really bad for the

hives that they have to be harvested
on a regular consistent basis.

And this got me thinking what
about honeybees in the wild?

Is there such a thing as a wild
honeybee and what do they do to

maintain the health of their hives?

That's a great question.

People always say don't take
the hunting from the bees.

That's there.

We're very thoughtful about the honey.

We take, we typically leave about 50 to 70
pounds of honey on a colony at all times.

We don't take all of their.

MetLife though, last year there, they
had one hive that produced 117 and

0.5 pounds of honey, one beehive.

And we tell a company on
average 30 pounds per beehive.

So this colony just for one year, or
how long does the flow is on right

now, we are like smack in the middle
of the biggest part of the nectar flow.

So it starts like April, as soon
as flowers start to bloom and our

go date to start pulling honey.

Basically the 4th of July,
because it's going to get hot.

The flowers are done blooming.

So we pulled the honey, if you,
in the winter, all of our bee

boxes, when the honey flows on
you add wood inboxes to them.

So they grow.

And you add those boxes because
that's where the honey is stored.

And then when you pull it, the box
is dropped back down to two boxes.

And it's what I like to
call the maternity ward.

It's where the queen is.

It's where the eggs are being
laid, where the pollen is and where

there's a good bit of honey still.

But if you leave those boxes
on and they end up being.

When winter hits, it's like how you have
to heat a bungalow versus a mansion.

The amount of energy you have to exert
to heat a mansion is unsustainable.

And it will, it can actually
cause the colony to freeze to

death because they need to keep
wherever the queen is at 96 degrees.

So if it's really cold, they
get in a really tight football

huddle and they just vibrate their
bodies to keep her at 96 degrees.

If it's warmer, they'll
separate out a little bit.

They'll grab some resources.

If there's too much space,
it can kill a colony.

So we pull off the supers.

We never take too much.

But then we start to harvest honey,
and there's not many, especially in

this area of the country, not many
wild hives, they just don't make it.

They might make it for a season, but
then they don't make it in other areas.

They can, I see that the honey
jars are labeled with what the

bee is pollinated on and on.

I don't really know how to word that
question, but you'll see wildfire,

flower, honey, or different types.

How do you know.

Where this honey is coming from.

Are you following the beat and know where
he is getting the honey bee stalker to

know what kind of flower it's landing
on 300 different floral varieties

of honey, you can have in the United
States, way more around the world.

And it is that you're a honey
hunter, if you can do, and they're

called monoplural floral honey.

Buckwheat honey Clary, Sage Tupelo.

Sourwood honey, some of the best honeys
in the United States, the beekeepers

move their bees to let's say sour woods.

That's a North Carolina
mountain, Georgia mountain honey.

It's one of the best in the country.

They move their bees up there.

They're.

Bunch of 'em bear fencing and wiring out.

So the bears don't get to the bees.

They want the actual bees for the protein
and they will move those hives out and

they say it's usually once every seven
years you get a good sour wood floats.

One of the reasons why
it's super expensive.

My old teacher called it the Cadillac
of all the honeys old school beekeepers.

It's chef's kiss.

It's tastes like Christmas in your mouth.

It's amazing.

But then the wildflower, honey is our,
like what we get in cities, because

we don't know where the bees went.

You can test it and it needs to
be over 51% of one floral source

of the pollen count in the honey.

And so it tests the honey.

It's fantastic.

And that's how you can
name a different honey.

We do a honey, we call it hunting camp.

It's four teams and they get to
taste these a couple of these special

monoplural honeys and they get a tasting
wheel and notes and they get to taste

and smell and try to build the true
profile of what these honeys are.

Which is really fun because but
the wildflower is really complex.

We actually, we submitted all of our
Georgia honey into the largest But it's

called the black jar honey contest.

And it's literally, every honey goes in
a black jar and it is some of the top

ranking honey judges in the country.

They just eat honey.

And they just, and I'm like, sign me
up after that jar throats are clear and

no coffee ever just based off of taste.

And they will slowly like
one-to-one boom, that one's gone.

This one's better.

This one's in.

They will slowly get to the
best honey in the United.

And the reigning national champion
is Georgia power and their honey.

One out of hundreds of honey
submitted from all over the country.

They came out on top as the best
tasting honey in the United States.

And that's one of your hot, and
it's one of our partners and we

got a fund, the Oscar of honey.

Oh, we were so excited and it was great.

Cause it's in the.

It's just, it is a sum, whatever
was planted around the area.

I sent an email to their CEO and I
told them, I was like, you guys, one,

you have the best tasting honey in
the U S and immediately within minutes

responded and said Georgia power
employees are committed to the highest.

Of excellence.

yeah, they were waiting.

They were waiting patiently for that.

Yeah.

What'd would you do on the black jar test?

If we had a bunch in front of
you, can you tell the difference?

Are you a bit of a honey Somalia,
a lot of honey bee, downtown and

inappropriate amount of honey.

I be downtown, so I'm getting pretty good
at it, there's a couple of honeys or if

you put them in front of me, I can tell
you exactly what flower that came from.

What is your favorite?

Ooh, my favorite honey is Clary Sage,
and it's a very sad because it is a crop.

Took a hiatus out of North Carolina
and really the U S and came

back not too long ago as a crop.

It's used as a base and a lot of
perfumes, the flowers are beautiful.

It's it is an amazing honey.

And they have been able to create
a synthetic version of the oil.

So now farmers don't farm it anymore.

So we had to four buckets of it left.

That we were hoarding because
my favorite honey and I spilled

one of them the other day.

Oh, 50 pounds of one of
the last buckets of Cleary.

So like that episode of friends
where they're in the cheesecake

office right now, or Winnie the
Pooh, just grab it with your fingers.

Oh, heartbreak.

So earlier you said that the bears
are actually after the bees.

I wanted to ask that too.

Yeah, they'll eat the honey, but they're
there for the protein are there for them.

Yeah.

So are they immune to getting stung and
their mouths or they like the larva a lot.

And yeah, like their fur is too thick.

The bees can't sting through there first.

It's why you have bear
fences that you put out.

If your bees are in like more rural
areas or Eastern areas to not just

the mountains, Eastern areas too.

If you're trying to get buckwheat honey
down east I uncle one time he told

me he, he really sent me a picture.

He'd set up his hives and had
put up his fence and there.

Big bear sitting in the tree line.

Like literally cross-legged just
waiting for my uncle to leave.

So my uncle like went back and
got more like electrical wiring.

And he was like, if that bear touches
this wire, he's going to get shot right

back over to the fence line here where
he belongs going to get shocked and

just boom, right back over beers east.

I only think about them in the mountains.

Yeah.

I'm not sure what I would think if I was
walking to the beach and here comes a bear

start clapping, making a lot of noise.

Yeah.

So I have a follow-up on,
you mentioned one of the.

One of the types of honey, the
flow is only every so many years.

This got me thinking.

Does this mean there's a lot of honey
storage and aging going on in the world?

And is this a thing like people age,
honey or store honey bourbon barrels?

Exactly.

It's starting to sound a
lot, like wine and whiskey.

It's very much like wine and whiskey.

It's got a whole world to it.

We don't even think about.

And most people don't even realize honey
can taste different, but when we line

them up in a row and people get to taste
it, they get real bougie, real hot.

They're like, oh, I'm an art.

Awesome.

I don't like the tulip Poplar.

I don't want that one.

And so it's fun for people to get
to try that, but honey will never

go bad if it is stored properly,
they found it in king Tut's tomb.

Still good to this day.

It will harden, but that's fine.

That's a dead giveaway that
it's actually honey, because the

sugar crystals come together.

That's why you always buy your honey
in glass because all you have to

do most of the world likes it hard.

You put it on a hot biscuit
and it will start to melt.

And it's like a nice smear.

But if you just put it in hot water,
not boiling, but a pot of hot water

where it's below the lid, just pop
the lid off so that it, the pressures.

But in hot water and it'll
loosen right back up.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

And so that's why you always want
to, in glass, don't ever put your

honey in the microwave, it super
heats it and it'll kill all of the

healthy properties out of your honey.

If you're going to store honey
for long periods of time, you can

actually put it in your freezer.

It will never get hard in your
freezer which is interesting

refrigerators at will.

And when it's cold, it'll
just thicken up faster.

So always They're called terroir tastings.

So you're tasting the same honey from
the same region from different years.

And it's just like wine.

It's a terroir tasting.

I, my honey doesn't last long
enough for me to do tastings.

I think the added thing here is
you think about how, I don't know

for me, honey has always something.

I think about almost a lot of
times when I'm under the weather,

it's I don't drink a lot of tea.

I drink a lot of coffee,
so I'm under the weather.

I switched to tea and then I'm
piling honey and lemon in it.

Never am I just eat.

Independently . Yeah.

Yes, honey is the only
natural product that we have.

That's proven to help
reduce a sore throat.

So it is, it's a antibacterial
to anti-microbial.

It's so good for you.

If you ever get burned, here's
a fun fact for anyone listening.

If you ever get burned let me
taking something out of the oven

or if you're straightening your
hair and you just put honey on it

and then put a bandaid over it and.

It will make it so you don't scar.

It will pull the heat of
the burnout immediately.

I put I'm like the, my
big fat Greek wedding.

The Windex guy is on it.

I put it on my face before
I get in the shower.

Because it's really good for your skin.

And then the shower, he just melts it off.

I have a little pump bottle in
the shower you put in your hair,

you can put on burn anything.

What about sunburn?

That would be the stickiest
situation, literally

with honey and you guys can't see
her, but she does have amazing skin.

So I'm going to take that.

I'm going to put honey all
over my face when I get.

It's the best.

. So one thing I am interested in,
and I want our team at Midtown and

Kerry living to get a part of is
that the team building opportunities

that you have at be downtown.

Absolutely , so we have a lot of partners
that, we do team building, employee

engagement programming with that can't,
or just don't have the opportunity

to have hives on their property.

We don't operate in those cities or they,
their building isn't conducive for it.

We still want everyone to
get to experience the bees

and the lessons of the bees.

So we have this whole program set,
built out where you can pick and choose

what you want to do with us and what
programs you want to participate in.

Even if you're not a corporate
hive program partner of ours.

We have the BDT leadership Institute.

That's all built in biomimicry.

It's taking and looking at nature.

For solutions and new ideas to our human
world is typically done in engineering.

If you think of the wings of an airplane,
they're designed like a bird of prey

because they're super aerodynamic.

But for us, we look at bees and
how they are high performing teams.

Mother nature's best storytellers.

So we have a leader development class or
around storytelling to be a good leader.

You have to be able to
tell a compelling story.

You have to be able to get people
on your team and all excited about

a vision that may be hard to even
understand if it's even possible.

To get to and succeed in, but
the power of storytelling matters

and honeybees are as an indicator
species and a Keystone species.

They're one of our best
examples of a storyteller.

They're one of our best examples
of collective storytelling as well,

where all of these bees work for
the greater good of the colony, not

just for their own individual gain.

So it's this, we over I'm mentality.

Storytelling matters know.

People ask, how did bee downtown get here?

How did the crazy B
company get successful?

And it's the power of storytelling.

It's people want to be part of this
story of changing the world and

making the world a better place.

How do you tell your compelling story
to help change the world as well?

I think everybody wants to do good
things and you just don't always know.

How to go about doing something.

And like you were saying earlier,
you feel like it has to be some wide

sweeping act, but it doesn't, you
just start small and go from there.

Anyone who said small things
can't make a big difference.

They have never met a honeybee.

One of the things that's clear from
this conversation is you have a lot

to say on the subject of honeybee.

And I understand you have
a podcast of your own.

Yes, the podcast.

I I co-host with our chief learning
officer, he's retired Colonel from the

us army he's professor emeritus of duke
he's on staff at west point as well.

He has built this class with me.

He's our leader expert.

And then my team has to be experts and the
podcast is called the business of leaders.

It's the story of the Colonel
and the keeper and pal, this

very unlikely duo came together.

To build this leadership Institute.

That's very different than anything
else that's out there right now.

It's all kinetic.

It's all about getting your hands in the
hive and learning through experiences,

not just sitting in the classroom.

He has a lot of stories to
share about his military career.

We talk a lot about how the
leadership translates into the

beekeeping world and vice versa.

So it's a joy to get,
to spend time with Joe.

He will forget more
about leadership than I.

Ever know so to have all of this time
with him to learn and grow and have

him as my mentor is quite a gift.

That's awesome.

Fantastic.

I look forward to listening to that.

Tell us, what is next for you?

What are your goals?

What do you want to do with be downtown?

We're expanding to new cities.

We're hoping to get density in the
cities with new partners so that's DC,

New York Tampa, Richmond, Charlotte
and , and definitely Raleigh as well.

Yes.

Yeah.

We'll stay in Raleigh, that's home for us.

We're having our biggest, best year ever.

And it's been really exciting to see.

Our team is big enough.

Now our team is educated enough now
and how this business works that

despite growing so quickly, we're
getting it right at the same time.

Joe, our chief learning
officer always says slow is

Melissa: smooth,

smooth as fast.

And we went slow.

We didn't really take on money.

We just, we put our heads down.

We built North Carolina, Raleigh
Durham, and we built out.

And we built it the right way.

Now we can expand quickly the right
way and not ever cut corners or not

me, our standards of excellence.

And I'm excited to see what happens
over the next couple of years.

We look forward to maybe
having a back at some point.

A big thanks to Lee, Catherine Bonner for
being our first podcast guests well done.

I've worked in a lot of buzzing and
being, I always appreciate that.

I appreciate the more, as soon as I
leave, man, I should've said that I'm

going to wake up tonight thinking of one.

Oh yeah.

That's as good stinger.

We go, there we go, Joe.

Thank y'all so much.

I'm super excited to listen
to all of the episodes y'all

will be producing in the future

Adam: Welcome back.

We are back with Taka, the triangle,
and we have a followup guests.

Melissa: Yes, we do.

We have Heather Rollins from Fairview
garden center and I know Heather from

preschool days, our youngest kids were
together in preschool, but Heather is

here to talk to us about the plant side
of the whole pollinating world and bees

and how we can be better stewards of.

Pollinating animals, how we
can be better stewards yes.

Of the climate.

Yes.

First, Heather, will you please
tell us a little bit about yourself

and how you got involved with
plants and with Fairview gardens.

Heather: Yeah.

I met my husband at NC state
in the horticulture club.

So it's a nerdy love story that we have

Melissa: horticulture scene from Greece.

Yeah.

Sorry, I can't go out guys.

Heather: Horticulture club.

There's so many great things about
the horticulture department at

NC state, of course, including
meeting the love of your life.

His name is Brad Rollins and
he is the third generation

at Fairview garden centers.

His grandmother.

Joanne started the business as a backyard,
greenhouse growing in tin coffee cans and

selling to the Winn-Dixie grocery chain.

We're off of Holly Springs road.

Bought a farm and Holly Springs road
was just basically a dirt road and

grew strawberries and had pigs and
chickens and started growing drainage,

gums and poinsettias in her backyard.

And then, the rest is history.

And then my mother-in-law
Susan is the second generation.

And Brad is the third.

After I graduated from NC
state actually worked not right

in with the family business,

I worked at a wholesale nursery
and actually produce farm where we

rented beehives and things like that.

So that whole pollinator world I've
learned from the food production side

and also from the plant world as well.

And then I've been at Fairview now for
almost 10 years, working with the family

Melissa: For more information about
Fairview and about Joanne doer and

her amazing story and how she the
evolution of Fairview garden center.

It's an R.

March, April issue of
Midtown and carry living.

I just love her story and it's not
because I wrote the story, which

I did, but I love meeting Joanne
and hearing about her legacy.

And she's just, she has
quite a story to tell.

So

Heather: check that out.

She does.

She is an amazing lady, 90 years old.

And

Melissa: still end it
still in the greenhouses

Heather: every day.

Yep.

It's not that someday on
sometime make her last to go.

Yep.

Yep.

Exactly

Adam: keeps you young.

So one of the things that we were
just discussing with our previous

guest was the world of urban honeybee.

Stewardship.

And it got us thinking a lot
about pollination and pollinators.

And I think it'd be great if you could
expand on that because obviously it's

not just honeybees that are pollinators.

We want to learn more about the plants,
cause that's obviously your expertise, but

tell us a little about who is pollinating.

These plants.

Heather: There are all
sorts of pollinators.

Of course bees are the, they get the.

Most highlight, but butterflies
are fantastic pollinators.

Of course, hummingbirds, which
are wonderful to attract to your

garden or your poor to your deck
just to enjoy watching them.

And then there's wasps that
are pollinators there's flies.

There's.

Anything like that,
that lands on a flower.

Oh yeah.

Interesting.

I'd never heard that don't SWAT the NATS.

Melissa: No, but I don't
want the waspy there.

So we, maybe we can talk about how
to attract the ones that we are.

Heather: They're a little bit more.

Mosquitoes, no mosquitoes.

They just suck your blood.

There are plenty of plants that can
pollinate and also deter mosquitoes.

So there you go.

Maybe we need to touch on that
bang for your buck right there.

Yeah.

Okay.

Adam: When should we start
thinking about planning?

Is are you recommending plants
year round, perennials, annuals.

Heather: All the plants all the time.

Yeah.

So for in North Carolina in spring,
we usually say the average, last

frost date is around April 15.

On average, some years there's a false
later or some years, a little bit crazy.

Yeah.

It's always that way.

Yeah.

Always that way.

So that's usually a good rule of thumb
though, for planting annuals in your

yard, things that are not as cold Hardy,
that can't handle below a freezing

temperature which is what we grow
all in our greenhouses mostly are we

grow 80 to 90% of our annual flower.

And then of course we began getting in our
perennial plants about that time as well.

And there's a lot of fantastic perennial
options, but trees and shrubs, and there's

Al there's plenty of trees and shrubs
that do really well in our area that

are fantastic for pollinators as well.

And you can plant pretty much year
round in North Carolina, as long as the

ground isn't frozen, which is a very
limited time if ever in the winter.

That's a good thing about our
moderate climate is you can

garden in all seasons in our state

Adam: when you talk about shrubs or trees,
is it important that they're flowering?

Is that a key component?

In terms of pollination and

Heather: definitely for
pollination, for sure.

And even your Holly's that you
plant in front of your house.

They have really in conspicuous
flowers, so flowers that you're,

you're not planting it to enjoy the
flower, but they have little teeny

white flowers that then turn into
the red berries at Christmas time.

But bees love those little white flowers.

So there are plenty of plants that
can be evergreen and flower seasonally

that attract pollinators, but you
might not have them for just for

the look of the flower, but they can
provide a lot of benefit in the land.

We have different salvias and sages
there's pineapple Sage, which is

actually also one of those plants that
could be a mosquito deterrent because

it has a little fragrance to it.

It's an herb.

Then you can use the flowers
for teas and things like that.

And any of those herbs really deter
mosquitoes with that, the odor that

they have, like the citronella or
Rosemary, things like that, that really

Melissa: strong sense

Heather: like that.

Okay.

And they also deterred

Dear, and bunnies, and things
like that with those type motors.

But anyway, there's a pineapple
Sage and it's this beautiful

chartreuse green foliage.

Tubular red flowers on the end of a long
inflorescence, which is the flower stalk.

Melissa: So are there native plants
to North Carolina that you would say a

work best as far as being a pollinator
friendly and do native plants?

Make a difference in terms of how
everything grows in this area.

Heather: There's a case to be made
for both native and non-native plans.

Of course, native plants are
well acclimated to our climate.

And then already have an, a natural
built in predisposition to attract the

pollinators that we have in this area.

Like right now you see some native
luggage strum, blooming there's lots

of different native plants that are
earlier, you notice on the, when you're

driving down 40 and there's all these
purple trees on the edge of the woods.

That's when the red buds are blooming.

So there's lots of native plants
that definitely attract pollinators

and are beautiful for spring.

And then our really well acclimated to our
climate and can grow well in this area.

And then you've got other
plants that we grow for annuals.

Flower because they're more tropical.

That can grow seasonally in our
area that are not going to last

through the winter, but that can like

Melissa: the humidity and the heat

Heather: of the right.

And they can attract the pollinators.

Planting a lot of different variety
of plants from perennials and annuals

and different things that have
different balloon times attract more

pollinators and we'll have pollinators
come into your garden all year.

Adam: So I'm feeling like one
of the things I'm learning today

is that the variety of plants
necessary for healthy pollinators.

This isn't just for the
benefit of the plant.

It's also for the health of the
pollinator itself, because obviously

two different variety of plants.

Aren't going to be pollinating
each other, but you want

healthy pollinators to be moved.

To have the food source, that's right.

Okay.

I'm just trying to, I'm trying to
understand who there's so many communities

that benefit from this, we've been
talking about the corporate community

benefiting and the human community
benefiting and the B community benefiting.

And now the plant community, Ben it's.

It's amazing actually

Melissa: mother nature.

Heather: That's right.

So when I worked on the produce
farm, we rented beehives because it's

not only for the food, more bees,
more pollination makes more fruit.

But we rented those hives in
order to have a higher yield.

If you have a vegetable garden that
you want to plant lots of plants in

your garden that attract pollinators,
other than just the vegetables,

anything that would attract a B that
would come to also your pepper or

your strawberry plant and in core
encourage more fruit production as well.

Gotcha.

Melissa: Let's talk a little bit
about lawns and how lawns are not

necessarily the best idea for nature.

I was talking to Lee Catherine earlier
about how lawns are not good for

anything really except for looks.

And can you touch on maybe how we
can start turning our yards and to

a little bit less lawns and more.

Space.

That would be more mother nature

Heather: friendly.

Yeah.

So I'm a big plant nerd and it would
be fun for me if we didn't have

grass to mow in our yard and I could
just have this beautiful garden

that I could work in all the time.

There's a case to be made for turf grass.

And it's a big industry in
the state of North Carolina.

You've got golf courses and there's
a degree that you can get it in.

See, say that's turf grass management.

And it actually is.

As far as agriculture goes
a really big industry.

State.

So there's a definitely a case to be made
for the benefits of turf, grass and lawns.

If you have a lawn that you're mowing and
you're mowing down the flowers or spraying

the Clover and things that attract
pollinators, then that ultimately is not.

The best thing for the environment.

Having a landscape that incorporates
more native plants or more flowering

plants or winding beds, or tying
in some food scape into your

landscape, so different wheats or.

Spinach that or Swiss chard that's
actually absolutely, or an, a

mentally beautiful that you can
add into your landscape it is

better to diversify your lane.

Melissa: I've heard of a
movement, I guess it's called no.

Moe.

May have you heard of no.

Moe may just

Heather: heard about that.

Melissa: Where people are saying don't
mow your lawns and may, and it's just

a way of preventing the mowing over the
clovers and all the good stuff so that

it can give everything a break and let
the bees have some halves, have some

meals before you start mowing your grass.

Every.

Heather: As long as you don't get
an HOA letter or not knowing your, I

guess it depends on where you live.

Let it go

Melissa: until the HOA sends
you a letter about that.

Heather: Right before I left for
this interview, I came, I walked

through the perennial department
to look at what we have right now.

That would be a good even evergreen
or seasonal perennial plant for the

shade that would attract pollinators.

And there are a ton of options.

So Humira or coral bells prefers
a filtered light or morning sun.

It is in our area in evergreen perennial.

But they also, the leaves come in a
variety of colors, not just solid green.

Lime green or purple or burgundy.

Melissa: And I just bought some of those
a couple of weeks ago from Fairview.

I'm trying not to kill them
right now, but they're pretty

Heather: they seem to be okay.

Knock on wood.

Yeah.

Adam: I'm going to be making some notes

Heather: here.

Yeah.

And then in early spring they get a
little pink or white bell shaped flower,

which is why they're called coral.

Fox glove is another filtered,
light, shade, loving plant.

And I felt like I should mention when we
talk about sun or shade what we say in

the gardening industry constitutes what
is a full sun area or a full shade areas.

A plant for full sun would be
six or more hours of direct

sunlight throughout the day.

And keep in mind that in the spring
and summer, that sun is much more

intense than it is in the winter time.

So like a three o'clock to 6:00 PM.

Sunlight is a really intense and
compared to a 10 o'clock in the morning.

So six or more hours of sunlight in
an area would be considered a full

sun plant that you'd want to plant for
that area that can tolerate full sun.

And then shade would be four or less
hours of sunlight throughout the day.

So morning sun is a lot less
intense than filtered light.

So under trees or, something like
that in your front yard would be

filtered lighter or shade, loving
four or less hours of sunlight a day.

And then we say parts on is four to
six hours somewhere in between there.

But if you have a vegetable garden
or an herb garden, you want full

sun, you want six or more hours
to get that sunlight to the plant.

So they're flowering and producing.

The food that you want to
off of it, where in lies

Melissa: my garden problem
really Heather knows this.

I really want to grow vegetables
and my yard just does not get

that six hours of straight sun.

So

Adam: We have more sun in our backyard.

And we've had a lot of success around
gardening and flower gardening, but

we always wanted the vegetable garden
to be kind over on the edge of this

space and sure enough, not enough sun
and we've struggled with the success.

But we're not giving up our herb garden.

It's fantastic.

It's the,

Heather: yeah.

Gardening is like fishing it's trial and
error, I have a degree in horticulture,

but that doesn't mean I don't kill plants.

So I don't think there's any
such thing as a green thumb.

I think you just have to love
your plant and learn how to grow.

Adam: I think that's fantastic advice
in making all of us feel better.

Thank you

Heather: for saying that pat, on the

Melissa: back,

Adam: So I'm thinking about our listeners.

And I know myself.

I can't remember the name
of a plant to save my life.

Just ask my wife, she'll
say, go out and get that.

And I'm like, which one was it again?

Anyway.

So in the local area, are there.

Are there gardens or arboretums or places
that you'd recommend people go other

than nurseries, where they could go and
see examples of how they might want to

replant their yard and maybe replace
some of that grass and that kind of

Heather: thing.

Yeah, absolutely.

NC state and the North Carolina
cooperative extension agency are

they're fantastic free resources.

For gardening tips.

The master gardener program
in wake county is fantastic.

But also I highly recommend the
JC Raulston Arboretum, which is

off of Beryl road near Meredith.

Beautiful.

Yeah, it's a, a research facility,
but also a display garden with

some of the most fantastic
plants that do well in our area.

And they're constantly, that's the
whole point is they try all these plants

to see what grows well in our area.

And then they have lots of free classes
and webinars and websites and things like.

And then of course, always at Fairview
garden center Joanne's garden.

She lives right next door to the garden
center and she's spent the last 30 years

carefully curating her garden, which also
has plants that do well in our area and

plants that we have in the greenhouse.

So you can say, oh, what is that?

And then

Adam: come back and get it.

We can just know about
the garden that's around

Melissa: her front garden.

And.

Check it out more

Heather: than likely if she's not, if
she's not in the greenhouse, she's in her

garden and that tooling around or fishing

Melissa: at the beach, strangers just
walking up to her house all the time.

Yes,

Heather: absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Adam: Fantastic.

I think this is so helpful and we
appreciate you coming in today

and taking the time to talk with
us about this, because there's a

lot to learn here and I feel like
we're just scratching the surface.

It's certainly, got me thinking about a

Melissa: lot of eye opening.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you for having me.

So if people want to learn more
about plants and everything we're

talking today, where should they go?

Heather: So we have a lot of fantastic
blog articles and YouTube videos

that you can find on our website,
which is Fairview garden center.com.

And then we also have, maintain our
social media pages on Instagram and and

Facebook, and we constantly put out new
articles and informational videos, or

just short stories that talk about what's
blooming now and what's coming on and just

quick little garden tips, things like.

Melissa: Or just stop by
and ask somebody in person.

Everybody is very helpful
there and knowledgeable.

So yes,

Adam: absolutely.

Absolutely.

Maybe they'll meet Joanne,
which would be a tree

Heather: that is a treat.

Yes.

But she's not going to
slow down to talk to you.

Have to

Melissa: walk and talk with

Heather: Joe or follow her scooter.

Melissa: Thank you, Heather.

Thank you so

Heather: much for coming today.

Thank you for having me.